If so, how do you listen to the file you're editing in sync with other tracks? It's really tough to tell if you have the pitch right or timing correct when you're just hearing the one track you're editing.

I hope I'm just missing something simple. But the answer is not "Use it as a plug-in".
I have no DAW. I export the files as WAV files and can open / edit / save / and return the files to the multitrack machine. I just can't hear my edits in context until I copy the file back.

I use a hardware multitrack machine and can sync using SMPTE, MTC, or ADAT protocols. Am I the only one using this as a stand-alone app?

Hello Dr2,

I don't know which Melodyne edition you own, but this passage from our FAQ should make it clear:

Umm... I'm not trying to tell you how to operate your own user forum, but the space under my username on the left shows which version of Melodyne I'm using.

The excerpt from the FAQ doesn't really answer the question, unless you're trying to say that the only way to listen to my edits in context with the rest of the music is to buy the $700 package.

Let me try again.
For those who use Melodyne Essential, Assistant, or Editor as a standalone app, how do you hear your changes in context with the rest of the music without saving to a file and copying them back? Maybe what I'm looking for is some user who has found a way to do this better than what I've come up with... which is an awkward workflow.

The fact that the only reply in 10 days has been to upgrade to another product hints to me that nobody's really using this thing as a standalone app.

I believe that if the designers/programmers of the standalone functionality would actually try to use it in this fashion, they would immediately see the problem. It makes sense that you'd want to hear the changes in context before you save it to a file and import it back into the original recording device. ..right?
Otherwise you're just blindly making changes and hoping they sound good.

It seems odd that this is how it would be designed, so that's why I'm asking for a better way. If there isn't, then please, someone at Celemony: Try to use this as a standalone app. Try to preview your timing changes in context with the rest of the music. Then you'll see there needs to be some way to sync it to other gear.

the simple, obvious and trivial answer is "you can't"; .... the standalone is great for a simple tweak or two, but for anything more complex where you need the context of other tracks it's necessary to use the plugin variety in a suitable DAW.

It is true that Melodyne Stand alone is not designed for use with any sort of backing-track. The name Melodyne singletracks also suggests this. But it's not the whole truth. Often there is a wish to do just that, correct vocals but in a musical context. The way to achieve this with the present version of Melodyne stand alone is by utilizing that separate files can have separate modes: melodic, percussive or polyphonic in the same session. In Melodyne stand alone you can choose to open files from the files menu but you can also drag in files from the desktop. If you drag in and position additional files "one after the other" these files will keep their properties as separate files, enabling you to change their algorithm separately even in the same session window.
The general idea is then to have the music-track presented as a Percussive file but the vocals-track as a Melodic file simultaneously and then drag them in sync, on top of each other. Then you can edit your vocals in its musical context since these files don't intermingle or interfere. If you want to keep only the vocals when done, simply delete the music-track.

Note: percussive mode gives an easy overview of whole files.
You can do this procedure in which ever order you prefer but to give one example:

Open a music-track and set its algorithm to percussive. Then drag in the vocals-file from the desktop but drop it clearly after the end of the first file, let's say one bar. Select that vocals-file and choose melodic algorithm for it instead. Only that part will change to melodic and you can now drag that entire melodic part in sync with the percussive music and they will not blend or interfere with each other. Both files are fully editable. You can adjust the volumes for good hearing on the backing-music for example and then fully edit your vocals-track. When you need to correct the note detection, select a blob belonging to either the percussive or melodic and only that type will show up in this Singletrack duo mode. Obviously it is the syncing that is the tweaking bit. However if the alternative is total silence without any reference, you might still think it's worth a minute or so since you can use it throughout the song.

//cheers

Thank you creater;
That's an interesting approach. As you mentioned, the name "singletrack" did suggest that this was not possible.

I've had a chance to try it, and it does work. After a few failed attempts I'm getting better at it.
It's still a bit awkward, but I expect once I get the details sorted out, it will become fluid.

There are some issues with timing that need to be worked out yet. I found that if I set the timeline to "seconds" and then de-activated the grid before I imported the 2nd file, it would stop trying to stretch/compress its length. That was annoying.

Secondly, I made a mistake of using the key button on the left side of the screen to select the reference track to delete when I was done, and ended up deleting some of the vocal too. I won't do that again.

Also, to assist in lining up the tracks, I just added a bit of noise ( drum hit or a quarter-second of vocal track should do it) to the beginning of all the tracks I wanted to import. It made it much easier to line up the audio inside of Melodyne.

My first attempt at returning the "fixed" vocal track back to the multitrack shows a slight phasing between this and the original vocal. I think I didn't do such a good job of lining it up after all. To resolve this, I believe I should import the vocal track first and then manually line up the guitar/keyboard/mix reference track. That way, if there's a discrepancy, it will be on the track I'm not keeping.

I'll post more as I discover more details.

A big thank you to creater for replying with a relevant post! Your explanation was presented well.

Importing the vocals first is surely best and just drag in the reference music and use it during the editing process. The backing percussive track resides on the note A4 so when the vocals crosses over it the vocals will land on top of the music but still remains visible and fully editable. All this is a workaround of course to get a chance to hear the music when using the Melodyne stand alone, on its own. The main issue is setting the correct start point for the backing. A designed Duo Stand Alone could do this and it would make good sense to use it as the basic concept when editing music. By handling 2 files it would become a true stand alone product, able to function independently of any supporting software. Then one could work in Melodyne instead and probably become very good at it!
//Glad the workaround worked

Hi there - I appreciate your frustration, but really I would like to assure you that....

- the benefits of using Melodyne as a plug-in working inside a 'proper' DAW are many, and go way beyond simple concurrent track aligment and synchronised playback

- you don't need to spend $700 on a suitable DAW host - check out the lower-end configurations from Logic, ProTools, Cubase, Nuendo, Ableton, Sonar, Studio One & Digital Performer et al

- somebody else here suggested using MTC as a means of syncing other hosts...and I reckon that could well include Reaper (sadly, not on the formal Celemony supported DAW list...yet?)

Not trying to wind you up, but you really should give proper DAW hosts and Melodyne as a plug-in a try.

pbryant;
I appreciate you trying to help, but really... Do you think I haven't heard the "Just go buy a DAW and join the lemmings" line before? You're not winding me up, but I just couldn't resist.
It's not a new idea.

Those of us who still use the Old School analog workflow do so because we've chosen it on purpose. We want to work this way. We've been swimming upstream against the easier/cheaper/blahblah hordes, and frankly find the DAW world to be irritating and counter-productive. Thankfully there is still room in this world for all of us to get along.
I understand the lure of the DAW world. Been there, done that. But I have the luxury of not needing to follow the crowd with this studio. And my customers appreciate it too. Plus, whenever I've needed to share data with a ProTools/Sonar/DigiPerformer/Whatever studio, we find a solution and we move on. The tired warning that "you must be ProTools compatible or you can't survive" is just a marketing gimmick.

As a side note, you'll find that most of us Old School guys don't try to talk anyone else into joining us. But that's a discussion for another forum I suppose.

Anyway, I think maybe you're mis-understanding me:

re: "- you don't need to spend $700 on a suitable DAW host - check out the lower-end configurations from Logic, ProTools, Cubase, Nuendo, Ableton, Sonar, Studio One & Digital Performer et al"

I wasn't saying that the DAW was $700. I was referring to the comment made by Celemony Support that the only Melodyne package that supported MTC was their $700 product. I've seen it, and it's not like the Essentials/Assistant/Editor package. Not nearly as intuitive.

re: "- the benefits of using Melodyne as a plug-in working inside a 'proper' DAW are many, and go way beyond simple concurrent track aligment and synchronised playback"

I was under the impression that the Melodyne apps functioned essentially the same whether they were standalone or plug-in. Could you elaborate on this? Are you referring to how it affects your workflow in the DAW?

re: "- somebody else here suggested using MTC as a means of syncing other hosts...and I reckon that could well include Reaper (sadly, not on the formal Celemony supported DAW list...yet?)"
I think that might have been me, originally. But I'm not trying to suggest that Melodyne syncs with other "hosts" via MTC. I really don't care how you do the plug-in workflow at all.
I'm hoping to bring light to the fact that using Melodyne as a standalone app has some holes in the workflow. But let's not lose sight of the important things: First off, I'm really happy that Celemony decided to make this package work as a standalone app. Very nice. I appreciate that immensely. This is the first product of its type I found that looks like it will fit into my workflow. But my ability to hear what my changes sound like in context with the rest of the music is lacking. It makes me think that nobody at Celemony has actually tested it this way beyond basic functionality.

If they would just add some way to synchronize outboard hardware to this application, it would make it an instant favorite for all of us who have been waiting more than 10 years for someone to do it.
I think it would be fairly easy.. after all, they have a product that does this already. So the code is there. And I'm not even asking for it to be the slave(which admittedly is tougher). Just output MIDI locate commands and timecode. It makes sense that the computer you're editing on is the master, as that will be the screen you're looking at. Does that make sense, Celemony?

re: "Not trying to wind you up, but you really should give proper DAW hosts and Melodyne as a plug-in a try."
No problem. No offense taken. I just have too much money and time invested in a different way of working.
Imagine if I tried to get you to toss all your software and computers out the window and buy a 2" analog machine and analog console, learn how to align your recorder, replace all those plugins with hardware effects units... and .... well, you get my drift. It would be more than just the expense of the hardware, it's a whole 'nother way of working.

All the best...

Claudio;
I found someone with Melodyne Studio and had a chance to try this MIDI synchronization. I was able to make Studio a slave, but when trying to make it the master, I was not successful. I made what appeared to be the correct changes in MIDI setup and set the checkbox in the transport window, but it didn't work. It appeared it was not sending the MMC commands.

I looked into the manual and found the section on MIDI, but didn't see any reference to sending MMC. I'll have to go by memory here, but I set up the MIDI port in one configuration screen, the "remote controller type" in another one-which I will assume is for slave operation only, and the checkboxes in the transport control. What did I miss?

Melodyne Studio can be MTC Master; just have to set MIDI Ports correct, and select "Send MIDI Sync" in Sync option of Transport Bar; very likely need to have correct framerate setup Menu | View | "SMPTE type". I have it working quite happily as Master with other applications as Slave in same PC using LoopBe Internal MIDI.

Hmm..that all sounds correct. I remember setting the SMPTE to 30. I'll see if I can try again later this weekend, but I don't see where I missed anything.

Could it be that the program outputs Midi timecode and / or Midi clock without sending MMC (Midi Machine Control) messages?

Could be.

Someone from Celemony: Could you verify Melodyne Studio outputs only MTC or MIDI Clock and NOT MMC?

OK Dr2,
I have a modified workflow for you to try. All things always starts with a question don't they?
- - -
1. Open the vocals from the File-menu in Percussive-mode. Deselect any loop.
2. Select and drag the vocals down one semi-note to -1.
3. Drag in the backing-track from the desktop and drop it on bar 1.
(There are now 2 parallel percussive files on the screen)
4. Adjust the timing of the music-file that resides on +-0 if need be.
5. Drag the vocals back up to +-0 and while still selected choose Melodic.
(The vocals becomes melodic but the music remains percussive.)
- - -
Working with 2 parallel percussive-files is easier and positioning files at the start of song is the normal way to import. "Opening" the first file but "Drag & drop" the second is the secret. I transpose one file down in order to keep them separated while syncing. If I record a similar audio-marker in the start of files I can align them instantly. I can adjust the volume to be ideal for editing before I change the mode. When using this more slimmed procedure, I can set it up under 1 minute and edit to my hearts desire.

So:
Open file (the vocals) normally and transpose down one semi-note to -1.
Drag & drop the music at bar 1. zoom in and adjust its timing if necessary.
Return the vocals to +-0 pitch then choose melodic while still selected.
Edit vocals in its musical context.
Delete the music-track.

I have checked this method by making an identical copy of the backing-track and chosen to open one from the file-menu and dragging the other copy in from the desktop, zoomed in and aligned and they run 100% in sync throughout the song guarantied. So the Principe works.

I get the best results by transposing down -1 and choose not to adapt to tempo from the dialog. One problem is having notes from the vocals on the reference-track. Then I transpose just that portion of the reference up and delete it and then use the key-button for selecting all but deselects the free A4 notes before deleting. That's a bit messy but done in less than a minute.
*My hope is of course that Celemony will kick in, they know a lot about these things
//cheers